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Old 12-16-2018, 05:49 AM   #11
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Interesting thread! I had a discussion recently where I asked a woman married for 40 years with two daughters how she rated living with men. She said, "I got married to a man who I saw as my dream person, he was some sort of projection of everything that I thought that I wanted I life. When I woke up to my own responsibility in idealising this human being, my husband accused me of emasculating him. We still have to work on our relationship all the time."


Perhaps men and women put their dreams onto potential partners, and the more distressed we all are the more frustrated dreams we project. I read recently a social survey that it takes 20 year old students on average 50 hours of interaction to form a new friendship, so why do we expect to find our mate in one evening?


There is something wrong, and we all need to stand up and work on our expectations?


PLUS.... I WOULD LIKE SOME SERIOUS FEEDBACK. Do you think that having suffered emotionally means that we deepen our understanding of ourselves, and we need to find a way to integrate that understanding into people's more superficial lives????

I get asked by women why I never had kids, and nowadays I cover by saying, "it's a long story". If I said, "well, I was tortured by my father as a child and it took me decades to come to terms with that suffering", people would feel "sad" for five minutes, and then they would start talking about shopping.

How do we make real life relationships that are gentler to ourselves and to other people?


Saidso!

I think for someone to ask, superficially, why you don't have children is extremely rude. It seems right up there with asking people about their incomes or religious beliefs. Obviously there could be millions of reasons why someone does not have children and all of them aren't really the other person's business.

I think your question is a big challenge. We don't want to "dump" our tragedies on others...but we also want them to inform in a way that enhances communication. I would say, practice makes perfect. My problem is that people will confide in me in a way that feels like they are using me as an unpaid therapist. I wouldn't mind a little less confiding and a little more laughter.

We all need both.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:31 AM   #12
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I think for someone to ask, superficially, why you don't have children is extremely rude. It seems right up there with asking people about their incomes or religious beliefs. Obviously there could be millions of reasons why someone does not have children and all of them aren't really the other person's business.
I think it is even more rude because right in the question is the presumption that your highest and best use is to be "chosen" by someone else and follow the norms of society. Just asking the question is an insult trying to be masked as a serious question. Because ultimately people who ask this question rarely care the actual reasons.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:30 AM   #13
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I think it is even more rude because right in the question is the presumption that your highest and best use is to be "chosen" by someone else and follow the norms of society. Just asking the question is an insult trying to be masked as a serious question. Because ultimately people who ask this question rarely care the actual reasons.



People are idiots! Too much texting and television. They don't know how to communicate. They let anything come out of their mouths. I guess that is part of the reason I am alone so much. I just got tired of the idiotic things people say. I got tired of being shocked at people's rudeness and judging.

There is so much wrong with the world...I wish people would become...you know, like global citizens...and stand for causes and such. What is the point of bringing children into this world when we are completely destroying the planet? Why isn't everyone concerned with making what we have more livable?

I was married, I had children, now I am single. To be honest I don't see much difference. I was never one to start every sentence with "My husband..." and I didn't wear a wedding ring...as I could not see why it was anyone's business whether or not I was married.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:48 AM   #14
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I'm In my late 40's never been married & no kids.when I tell men that they rudely say to me what's the matter with you & give me weird looks like they are judging me
THANK YOU for this important thread UCLAFan!!! I have been divorced for many years (my decision) and will never marry again simply because I don't want to. It is of zero interest to me. I do have a significant other and my desire to not marry again seems to perplex almost everyone around me.

I have decided not to have children because I live with chronic depression and I don't want to risk post-partum depression or post-partum psychosis. Anyway, my point is that men and women marry/don't marry and procreate/don't procreate for all sorts of different reasons.

I am so sorry that you have had this reaction but I admit that I am not shocked by it at all. I've even had friends tell me: "Oh don't be silly! OF COURSE you'll get married again!" Or "You can't NOT have a baby...that's crazy...you would be a wonderful mother!" Even though I never asked if they thought I'd be a good parent

Perhaps we need to start an international club for women who are not married and without children in order to show the world that we are REAL. We are HUMAN. We are in fact WOMEN. And we like it that way And for those women who don't like it that way and wish for something different in the future...you're also welcome in our club

I have no problem with married folks and folks who love having babies. Men or women. We are all in this life together. I just think it's reasonable to identify the double standard. Men are considered persons in their own right therefore if they are single, divorced, married, fathers, childless...they are still certified people. Whereas society often takes a bizarrely reductive view of girls and women...if we aren't some fella's wife or future-wife and planning to have a few babies...then what are we? Confused? Mixed up? Not nice enough for a guy to stick around?

For me, the really trippy part is that these biases are not only coming from men. I get tired of hearing: "I didn't become a real woman until I had my baby" or "I didn't really grow up until I became a mother" or "It is selfish to choose not to have children." I think there are abused and neglected children who might argue that some selfish parents do in fact exist. And yes, some non-parents are selfish...but that doesn't mean we all are.

There's a good Ted Talk given by a strong and intelligent lifelong single woman (I think she's around 60) on the value of the single life. She also wrote an article on the disrespect and even aggression that some married folks display toward singletons. Very interesting. She basically points out that if someone is unmarried and happy that way...some married folks find her threatening because it challenges their world view that the only path to happiness is marriage + children. I think she may be onto something there.

I always say there is more that unites us than divides us!
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Old 12-17-2018, 06:55 AM   #15
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She also wrote an article on the disrespect and even aggression that some married folks display toward singletons. Very interesting. She basically points out that if someone is unmarried and happy that way...some married folks find her threatening because it challenges their world view that the only path to happiness is marriage + children. I think she may be onto something there.
Absolutely. They chose the normal life but that normal life is tough. So when you come along and say, nah, it devalues their choice if you "get away with it"... and are accepted by society. It is important to them that you be as miserable as they are or... an outcast from society.

If you want to be single you must pay for it.

Just about every fringe group under the sun is more accepted as long as they have someone with them. Every notice that?
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Old 12-17-2018, 07:31 AM   #16
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I'm married so I don't get asked that, but I've seen unmarried friends get the same crap. "Oh, you're not married? Do you at least have a boyfriend? You're too pretty to be single."

So much wrong with that.

None of their blankety-blank business, for one thing. The other implications, such as only unattractive women should be single, I'm not even going to touch.

Sometimes the only thing you can say is, "Ugh."
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:48 PM   #17
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I had a friend who has always been single for her own reasons. At a dinner party, our other friend's wife...in a loud voice in front of everyone asked: "So when was the last time you were actually on a date??!" The person she was asking had never been on a date in her life. I felt so bad for her. She was really embarrassed. But it's like her very existence as a non-dating adult woman just shocks or annoys some people to their core. Sigh.
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:07 PM   #18
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I'm In my late 40's never been married & no kids.when I tell men that they rudely say to me what's the matter with you & give me weird looks like they are judging me

It's sad people are so presumptuous and judgmental. I guess on the bright side, you have an immediate answer in regards to the following question. "Is this person worth the investment of my time, effort and emotions to let into, and/or keep in my world?"
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Old 12-22-2018, 09:02 AM   #19
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I have friends like this, too. It's questions like this, from men like this that reaffirm what I know of the struggle my friends have faced. It's funny, it would probably be these same types asking these judgy questions that would feel threatened by any relationship that a woman with kids, previously married, shared with her kids. Just sayin'.

It would be a nicer world if individuals would embrace the moment of timing-meaning learn to embrace meeting someone in that moment when both were/are single. If that makes sense?
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Some men think women can't live good lives without them. I have several single, never married, no children friends who live very good lives, so please don't let such men get to you. Okay?
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Old 12-24-2018, 08:51 PM   #20
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Those men are really immature, who say that to you. I'm in my late 40s too, without children and I've never been married.



Society has changed, and some men just refuse to accept these changes that concern women being happy and successful in their lives without being married with children.



Actually, there are studies and research that show single women are happier than married women.
I feel like when they say that they are judging me etc & I find it really rude
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