Psych Central

Go Back   Forums at Psych Central > > >



advertisement
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-12-2018, 11:01 AM   #41
here today
Magnate
here today has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: SE USA
Posts: 2,901
5 yr Member
1,004 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by missbella View Post
. . .
I'm happy to learn of folks with such flawless judgment that they're immunized against any scam, charlatan or abuse of power. No wonder they visit this discussion to flaunt their infallibility.
And since they are not subject to the vulnerabilities or temptations that afflict some others -- no need to consider their judgment as having any value about the kind of situation the OP was writing about since, as one poster with this view said

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
. . .
This hasn't happened to me nor would it but I'm just merely saying in a hypothetical thing. I don't like people telling me who i should blame etc. I will decide that myself
The rest of us can decide for ourselves who is to blame, too.
here today is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Hugs from:

advertisement
Old 11-12-2018, 12:10 PM   #42
missbella
Grand Poohbah
missbella has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,724
8 yr Member
740 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
And since they are not subject to the vulnerabilities or temptations that afflict some others -- no need to consider their judgment as having any value about the kind of situation the OP was writing about since, as one poster with this view said

The rest of us can decide for ourselves who is to blame, too.
Various therapy associations have few agreements about ethics. The sole exception, the sacrosanct boundary, is prohibition against sexual relations with clients. The therapists is solely and always responsible and subject civil, professional and sometimes criminal penalties for transgression. The most superficial survey of psych ethics literature will uncover that.

At age 67, I've been entrapped by various charmers and charlatans and hope I'm better at recognizing them. But I can't foresee ever being so invisibly wise that no one will ever fool or exploit me again.
missbella is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Old 11-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #43
Parva
Member
 
Parva's Avatar
Parva has no updates.
 
Member Since: Aug 2015
Location: East Coast of US
Posts: 223
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

3 yr Member
156 hugs
given
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Hi all - OP here.

I thought I might weigh back in here. I certainly didn't expect this thread to take this course.

Relationships between T and patients can be exceedingly complex; this complexity makes blame about any specific outcome - good or bad - potentially less relevant. While the ethics of sexual relationships are crystal clear, I will say that I took a lot of responsibility (right or wrong) for what happened. Mine was a therapeutic relationship bound by poorly managed maternal transference and the child part's terror of losing his 'mother'. Therapy ended, I think, because of romantic attraction from the T to me; the post-T relationships that were 'offered' to me included none or sexual. With where I was at the time so deep in maternal transference, I had to take the sexual one. I couldn't tolerate being abandoned again. That was, in fact, what the therapy was about.

I have spent endless hours trying to sort out how it got there, what I did or didn't do right, how my therapist was so horrible vs the most amazing person I've ever known. The worst of it all is that it ended so suddenly (my choice) and we never even said goodbye. We never tried to figure out how to resolve things in a way that could minimize the damage - to both of us. Because while she may have violated an ethical boundary, she was undoubtedly ripped apart by this. Who's fault is that? Does it matter? The pain is the same. The damage is done.

I thought suing her could help me move on, and when that didn't work, it left me even worse. The horrible things her attorney said - I never knew if my ex-T said or believed them, or even knew about them - hurt beyond words. They violated every core belief I / Child part held on to about her care and love, held on to the certainty that she loved me no matter what. That Child part has now been victimized again, abandoned again. Worse for suffering through what was experientially for me an incestuous, abusive sexual relationship of child with mother.

You all can accept this or not. You can tell me I'm full of **** about the power of mishandled maternal transference. You can disregard my feelings of a child being sexually abused (and my heart goes out to those of you who have been victims.) But please try not to boil this down to an academic argument of who's fault it was and how I, or any other victim of therapist abuse, should have 'known better'. Because like it or not, all of us take responsibility in the aftermath. We have no choice because we're the ones left to try and put our lives back together. We're the ones who hate ourselves for what happened. We're the ones who see in it the validation of our own failures, weakness, and vulgarity.
Parva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2018, 02:29 PM   #44
missbella
Grand Poohbah
missbella has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2010
Location: here
Posts: 1,724
8 yr Member
740 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

My participation in this discussion is indirect: a therapist team scapegoated and bullied me before a therapy group. However I was seduced by a couple of "authority figures" and entangled with a married neighbor who sexually harassed me. A TELL responder recommended Susan Penfold's book, which said it was the lead up the sexual abuse that did the most damage.

I definitely blamed myself for a long time. I received almost no help from therapists themselves, most of whom seem terrified of discussion about exploitative therapists. Even Keith-Spiegel's "ethics" book "Red Flags in Psychotherapy" painted a fictional sexual abuse survivors as a clueless, oversexed starlet, and Amazon reviewers (presumably interested in ethics) rebuked me when I protested the disrespect of this.

I can speculate why therapists and their defenders castigate survivors of exploitation. It reminds me of cult lieutenants defending their guru and enforcing the hierarchy. The notion of the fallible, amoral therapist upends a sense of security and order. That is one of the many myths a survivor must examine when recovering from harmful therapy.

I can't imagine the hostility that overcomes those who interject in a painful conversation to shame survivors. To me, it replays the metaphor of families that silence its members trying to discuss exploitation and violation.

Last edited by missbella; 11-12-2018 at 02:48 PM..
missbella is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Old 11-13-2018, 07:37 AM   #45
here today
Magnate
here today has no updates.
 
Member Since: Jun 2012
Location: SE USA
Posts: 2,901
5 yr Member
1,004 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parva View Post
Hi all - OP here.

I thought I might weigh back in here. I certainly didn't expect this thread to take this course.

Relationships between T and patients can be exceedingly complex; this complexity makes blame about any specific outcome - good or bad - potentially less relevant. While the ethics of sexual relationships are crystal clear, I will say that I took a lot of responsibility (right or wrong) for what happened. Mine was a therapeutic relationship bound by poorly managed maternal transference and the child part's terror of losing his 'mother'. Therapy ended, I think, because of romantic attraction from the T to me; the post-T relationships that were 'offered' to me included none or sexual. With where I was at the time so deep in maternal transference, I had to take the sexual one. I couldn't tolerate being abandoned again. That was, in fact, what the therapy was about.

I have spent endless hours trying to sort out how it got there, what I did or didn't do right, how my therapist was so horrible vs the most amazing person I've ever known. The worst of it all is that it ended so suddenly (my choice) and we never even said goodbye. We never tried to figure out how to resolve things in a way that could minimize the damage - to both of us. Because while she may have violated an ethical boundary, she was undoubtedly ripped apart by this. Who's fault is that? Does it matter? The pain is the same. The damage is done.

I thought suing her could help me move on, and when that didn't work, it left me even worse. The horrible things her attorney said - I never knew if my ex-T said or believed them, or even knew about them - hurt beyond words. They violated every core belief I / Child part held on to about her care and love, held on to the certainty that she loved me no matter what. That Child part has now been victimized again, abandoned again. Worse for suffering through what was experientially for me an incestuous, abusive sexual relationship of child with mother.

You all can accept this or not. You can tell me I'm full of **** about the power of mishandled maternal transference. You can disregard my feelings of a child being sexually abused (and my heart goes out to those of you who have been victims.) But please try not to boil this down to an academic argument of who's fault it was and how I, or any other victim of therapist abuse, should have 'known better'. Because like it or not, all of us take responsibility in the aftermath. We have no choice because we're the ones left to try and put our lives back together. We're the ones who hate ourselves for what happened. We're the ones who see in it the validation of our own failures, weakness, and vulgarity.
Here's the thing, though. You went to therapy for healing, for help. And, as you said in your OP, it destroyed your life. It wasn't right It wasn't. No matter what your participation in it was, it was not right, on the part of society's licensed "helper". So you sought justice. And received more injustice. I appreciate you telling your story, and so completely. Don't know what more to say It sucks. In many ways society sucks right now. So sorry the lessons were so hardly learned for you, but thanks for sharing them so perhaps some of the rest of us can learn something.
here today is offline   Reply With Quote
"Thanks for this!" says:
Hugs from:
Old 01-28-2019, 07:28 PM   #46
Topiarysurvivor
Member
Topiarysurvivor has no updates.
 
Member Since: Sep 2013
Posts: 445
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

5 yr Member
42 hugs
given
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tac0cat View Post
I'm confused on how so many are blaming the therapist...where is the accountability for the patient??? I understand some may be at fault, but it takes two to tango. If I was in a position that I didn't feel comfortable or was inappropriate I'd tell them, and if I still felt off about it a week later I'd switch. There are some lines you don't cross. Morals and ethics are not one sided either.
I have learned that blaming the survivor of Therapist/Client sexual exploitation is very much the same as blaming a small child for incest.
Topiarysurvivor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 02:48 AM   #47
DP_2017
Grand Magnate
 
DP_2017's Avatar
DP_2017 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,001 (SuperPoster!)
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

620 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkDNA View Post
you can think and believe what you want but I suggest you don't post stuff likw this. it's super triggering for those of us who have actually been thru this situation. actually it feels damaging

this is one of those things that you can never truly know what it's like unless it happens to you.
Anything could technically be triggering to someone. I merely shared my views. I don't consider myself vulnerable just because I do therapy. I am not saying others don't or aren't but it's not how I view myself

I don't need to experience a situation to know the kind of person I am. Ive never been the blame type unless I'm fully blaming myself. I know how I view the world etc. I'm allowed to view things this way just as others can view the world as they do.
DP_2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 02:51 AM   #48
DP_2017
Grand Magnate
 
DP_2017's Avatar
DP_2017 has no updates.
 
Member Since: Aug 2017
Location: A house
Posts: 4,001 (SuperPoster!)
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

620 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topiarysurvivor View Post
I have learned that blaming the survivor of Therapist/Client sexual exploitation is very much the same as blaming a small child for incest.
Uh that's a bit ridiculous to assume everyone in therapy is child like. I for one am not and don't appreciate that assumption.
DP_2017 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 02:57 AM   #49
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
junkDNA laugh all the way to hell
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 18,346 (SuperPoster!)
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

5 yr Member
7,795 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP_2017 View Post
Anything could technically be triggering to someone. I merely shared my views. I don't consider myself vulnerable just because I do therapy. I am not saying others don't or aren't but it's not how I view myself



I don't need to experience a situation to know the kind of person I am. Ive never been the blame type unless I'm fully blaming myself. I know how I view the world etc. I'm allowed to view things this way just as others can view the world as they do.
yes you can view the world exactly as you wish. I am asking that you refrain from making such comments on a sub forum where many of us are victims of therapist abuse and exploitation

no one is telling you that you cannot believe what you want. I'm just asking that you have the decency to keep certain things to yourself in certain situations

there is a time and a place for everything. stating your views such as you have here on this thread is not the place
junkDNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 02:59 AM   #50
junkDNA
Comfy Sedation
 
junkDNA's Avatar
junkDNA laugh all the way to hell
 
Member Since: Sep 2012
Location: the woods
Posts: 18,346 (SuperPoster!)
My Mood: Sexual relationship with T

5 yr Member
7,795 hugs
given
PC PoohBah!
Default Re: Sexual relationship with T

I do not have ill will towards you dp, it's just upsetting to read others ask why someone would put the responsibility on a therapist for these types of scenarios
junkDNA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




advertisement

 

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider. .
Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.

 

HomeAbout UsContact UsPrivacy PolicyTerms of UseDisclaimer
Forums HomeCommunity GuidelinesHelp


 
Helplines and Lifelines