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Unread 08-21-2017, 06:29 AM   #61
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

[quote=Bill3;5786027]It seems clear that right now she is not able to be completely candid with you at all times. I grant that this looks like a character flaw, but everybody on earth has character flaws. To me, the question is not whether she has a flaw, but how significant is this flaw in your relationship: does it outweigh outweigh the many good things you see in her and in the relationship?

I envy your ability, bill, to cut through the fog to the heart of the matter in such a considered way. yes, the significance thing is what i really need to grapple with.

Good scenario: She doesn't lie very often and you address her lying by, each time it happens, gently, nonjudgmentally calling her on it at the time (without by bringing up old stuff like the dic pic, never saying saying "You always lie", "You are an f-ing liar", etc. Just stick to the incident at hand) and having a mutually respectful discussion. With this approach you may gradually help her learn not to lie.

well, the problem here is that to have that kind of discussion she has to fess up and take responsibility for her lies. She won't and hasn't done that. All she's done is continue to say she's never lied to me and that she's innocent of everything, that i'm the one who is in the wrong, not her.


Bad scenario: She lies a lot, and it turns out the lies re about major, current things like she is seeing another guy, she keeps reaching out for abusive ex, etc. Plus, she refuses to discuss anything. In this scenario you come to realize that she doesn't really love you, regardless of what she says. You end the relationship.

absolutely correct and it's what i hopefully will do if i think she's lied again. right now, there's no way for me to know exactly what she's up to, if anything. until december, we're living 3000 miles apart. so, if i continue to see her, i'm going to have to put my suspicions on the back burner until i'm once again a part of her daily orbit.

The question is: how much are you willing to take a chance on experiencing a bad scenario in order to try to cultivate the good scenario?

this is indeed the major question i need to answer. right now, i'm inclined to stick around, for better or worse, and explain away in my own head both what I consider to be lies and, if lies they be, her refusal to admit to them and take responsibility for them.


I don't see this is a matter of right or wrong.To me, it just isn't clear right now. This is why it is a hard decision.

yup. really hard.

It sounds like you really want the relationship to work, that you really love the many good things you see. If you don't give the relationship every possible to chance to work, how will you feel when you look back and realize that you ended the relationship before giving it every possible chance?

And, on the other hand, if later on the bad scenario materializes and you are really hurt, how will you feel looking back and knowing that by giving it every possible chance you opened yourself to more hurt?

My suggestion is to weigh these two possible outcomes and see which path resonates more deeply with you, better fits who you are.

such wise words, and I thank you for them. in the future, i will try to be more dispassionate when thinking about this and try not to get so emotional about it. at the moment, i can't answer either of those questions, but as i move forward, i hope to keep both of them in the forefront of my brain and perhaps the answer will come to me sooner rather than later.

bill, you've been a godsend to me throughout this little ordeal. never has an internet stranger done more for me than you. again, i can't thank you enough.


*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
I think you are somewhat enjoying the 'wild and wooly ride'. You are seeing this as an epic love story.

yes, i believe you are right about this, much to my dismay.

You may be giving her too much credit for intelligence and integrity. ... She may just be too emotionally immature for a real relationship. She may just be an inveterate liar.

this could be but that's part of the conundrum i'm faced with. sometimes i think i'm in total denial, sometimes i think she is some kind of sociopath, but most of the time, i'm just confused.

You said she had breast implants and was a size DDD. Most women who get implants stay within a natural size. She went overboard. What do you make of this?
she got her first implant back in 94. she was pretty flat at the time and said she needed it just to feel good about herself. since then, they've gone up in size and down in size. her triple D days were when she weighed 30 more pounds than she does now, so her breasts then might have been more congruent with her size.

in the past two years, however, due to some major illnesses, she's dropped both in weight (she's around 100lbs now) and height (use to be 5'3, is now 5'1). i think she's a double d now, not triple, and her breasts really do look too big for her. but she likes the way they look on her and she's going to keep them that size. she's also one of the most flamboyant dressers most people have ever seen and she needs that breast size to fill out what she wears. Am I making excuses for her here? Yeah, most likely
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Unread 08-21-2017, 06:41 AM   #62
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Are you dating Dolly Parton? Lol, jk
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Unread 08-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #63
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
well, the problem here is that to have that kind of discussion she has to fess up and take responsibility for her lies. She won't and hasn't done that. All she's done is continue to say she's never lied to me and that she's innocent of everything, that i'm the one who is in the wrong, not her.
It sounds like it was difficult for her, but she did eventually acknowledge that she grabbed the phone. And it sounds like there was a productive discussion, that make her think. It sounds like she did not out-and-out reject what you had to say.


absolutely correct and it's what i hopefully will do if i think she's lied again. right now, there's no way for me to know exactly what she's up to, if anything. until december, we're living 3000 miles apart. so, if i continue to see her, i'm going to have to put my suspicions on the back burner until i'm once again a part of her daily orbit.

That definitely is a long ways and a long time.

Quote:
such wise words, and I thank you for them. in the future, i will try to be more dispassionate when thinking about this and try not to get so emotional about it. at the moment, i can't answer either of those questions, but as i move forward, i hope to keep both of them in the forefront of my brain and perhaps the answer will come to me sooner rather than later.
What you said about being dispassionate is really important in my view. When you feel the anger or other negative feelings rising, my advice is to set the matter aside until the passions and more calm. Take a cold shower if you need to! Setting the passions aside may well be a challenging task, but very important in my view. Do all you can to avoid thinking, speaking, or acting with regard to her when you are in the throes of some negative passion(s).

I could be wrong, but i don't see you realizing what to do on a single day where you have a sudden epiphany. I think it will be a gradual shift in your thinking over time, a gradual growth of clarity. In time, you will, I believe, find your way.

Thank you so much for your very kind words!
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Unread 08-22-2017, 04:11 AM   #64
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
It sounds like it was difficult for her, but she did eventually acknowledge that she grabbed the phone. And it sounds like there was a productive discussion, that make her think. It sounds like she did not out-and-out reject what you had to say.

that is true. but the fact remains that she a/ did grab the phone real real fast and b/ said later on that if she let me look inside, she's afraid i'll find something that i'll misinterpret and take out of context. she's used that 'out of context' line before and i don't buy it. i really do believe she's got on there that she really does not want to see. what i do with that belief is where i wobble.

absolutely correct and it's what i hopefully will do if i think she's lied again. right now, there's no way for me to know exactly what she's up to, if anything. until december, we're living 3000 miles apart. so, if i continue to see her, i'm going to have to put my suspicions on the back burner until i'm once again a part of her daily orbit.

That definitely is a long ways and a long time.

Yup. Anything could go on there and I'd never know.

What you said about being dispassionate is really important in my view. When you feel the anger or other negative feelings rising, my advice is to set the matter aside until the passions and more calm. Take a cold shower if you need to! Setting the passions aside may well be a challenging task, but very important in my view. Do all you can to avoid thinking, speaking, or acting with regard to her when you are in the throes of some negative passion(s).

this is so true. one thing i have in my corner that i didn't have before is sobriety. one drink and i'll be accusing left and right. at the moment, i don't have that feeling. let's hope it stays that way.

I could be wrong, but i don't see you realizing what to do on a single day where you have a sudden epiphany. I think it will be a gradual shift in your thinking over time, a gradual growth of clarity. In time, you will, I believe, find your way.

Agreed. More extremely, there's one train of thought that says that the moment she started lying and dodging about various and sundry she lost the right, as it were, to be trusted and because of that needs to re/earn trust by being 100% transparent with her online activities or else the relationship can't and shouldn't continue.

this means that, for us to continue, she'd have to give me complete access to her phone and laptop and when she's told this, she'd have to do it right then, before she can wipe her electronics clean. If there's nothing on them other than clear skies, peaches and cream, okay, she's earned trust. If there is, or if she refuses to give access, i'll have already told her the consequences: we can't go on .

Like I said, that's one train of thought and pretty extreme. OTOH, it would allow me to gauge her truthfulness pdq. i mean, she could say no way, because of her god given right to privacy. i could say, you lost that right when you lied, so it's up to you and your choice: open your phone and laptop or be gone with you.

i really do wonder what her choice might be.

I have no clue.


Thank you so much for your very kind words!
You're quite welcome. You deserve every one of them.
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Unread 08-22-2017, 11:09 AM   #65
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

btw / i thought ya'll might be interested in reading a few of her love texts to me. she's a good if not great writer and has a way of drenching me in endorphins such that i lose all sense, common or otherwise. to orient you a little, i've been having some trouble with my balance. she lives on the west coast, i on the east. we nearly broke up again last tuesday.

Yesterday evening:

I hope you regain some balance tomorrow. Is there anything I can do outside of jumping into my rocket ship and speeding to you on the jet stream of love? I know what you mean by feeling pixelated...itís not a good feeling at all. itís kind of depersonalized, at least my experience of it. But you did have a lot to deal with recently, including our almost destruction on the way to the airport on Tuesday...so ****ing glad that I changed my flight and that all was so good after that. I am going to double down on my efforts to be as clear as possible and communicate what I am feeling as close to the moment as possible. I am totally committed to you, sweetheart, and thatís the difference I feel about all of this. I feel you aligned with me in such a wonderfully interwoven way, one that isnít worrisome, but that in fact is so exciting I can hardly wait to write to you again, talk to you again, dream of you again, touch you again in my dreams, and then touch you again when we finally return to each other.

Later:

Wonderful dreams to you, my love. I would do just about anything for you. Please to note qualification of ďjustĒ includes impossible things like robbing a bank, becoming a hermaphrodite, signing up to be a devotee of the Rev Moon or his ilk, or jumping off a cliff, or becoming a cannibal or worse. Wonít do those things, but if you ask me to, I will make sure I take care of you forever. Which I will do anyway because I love you. I LOVE YOU, [[insert my name].

Later:

And now I go to sleep. I just changed the sheets after a very long time, which is not like me at all. But I smell like Chanel and I am as happy as can be to get in between these nicely stretched sheets and get ready to meet you in dreamtime. I adore you, my love, and crave you, want you, desire you, and will wait for you. Weíll talk soon. Good night.

First thing in the morning:

And good morning, my sweet. I miss you, and love you!

An hour later, after I haven't responded:

Are you alive, honey? Should I be worried? What if something had happened to you...how would I know?

*******

how can i not want to trust and carry on with a woman who says such wonderful things?
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Unread 08-22-2017, 12:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

I can certainly understand why you might think it is worthwhile to allow some time to see if things can work out!

She asked how she would know if anything bad happens to you. Do you have someone who would be willing to tell her if something did happen to you such that you could not tell her yourself? And vice versa?
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Unread 08-22-2017, 03:06 PM   #67
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Are her texts what's known as 'love bombing'?
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Unread 08-22-2017, 03:46 PM   #68
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Are her texts what's known as 'love bombing'?
uh oh. i've never heard of that before. i'll google it and see. probably, off the top of my head.

billf: no, we don't have anything like that set up. i suppose we should, since we are both not in very good health. thanks for the idea.
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Unread 08-23-2017, 11:37 AM   #69
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

?Love bombing? is the newest dangerous dating trend | New York Post
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Unread 08-23-2017, 12:57 PM   #70
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

I saw that. Could be.

No matter what I end up doing, I hate being 3000 miles away from the situation. Today, she's going to some big concert with a bunch of people I don't know, including a guy named ... Craig ... who she has mentioned in the past, just in passing. Not a big deal, I guess. But you never know.
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