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Unread 08-10-2017, 09:21 AM   #21
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Erebos...I bet if a poll was started here on who snoops and who doesn't you would be in the minority...we are all not blessed with a relationship without possible infidelity problems....the people that would vote not to snoop...in my opinion would be the people that haven't experienced infidelity in their relationships.
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Unread 08-10-2017, 09:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

When my h and I got together, neither of us talk about our past relationships. It was later, when we started having problems, I opened up about my past as it was relevant to my issues, and so did he. I don't know if it helped or hurt and I wish I hadn't tarnished our relationship by being so transparent, honestly.

I always trusted his fidelity and didn't snoop about that. But, if I had suspicions, sure I would ask him, but I'm sure he would lie, as all cheaters do, and you bet I would snoop. Then, if I felt really insecure and sure he was cheating, I would deal with it and most likely leave him. What's the difference between snooping and investigating? You need to protect yourself.
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Unread 08-10-2017, 10:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

[quote=Misssy2;5771426]People don't generally snoop...UNLESS there is a reason to snoop. Like you said there was another reason you were doing this.

I will say THIS about her "story"..you know its off...I know it is off..I haven't read replies yet..but I'm sure everyone knows this is off.

Some do, some don't, not really, but to me it is without question

I just skimmed your post again really quickly...and the first thing I saw was...she said no...you idiot...I'm on the train...SHE DIDNT SAY...No, you fool...I would never do that.

[I] When I read this, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I guess I was in denial about it. I'd seen that line, thought something was amiss but breezed by it. Turns out, it's the most important line in everything she wrote, and as you say below, you don't need to read anymore to know she's tells lies.[/i]

The details you don't need to know...anymore...you know enough...she is lying..and might be the one who started the post why can't I just date one man? There are women like that...I have felt like that in my lifetime.

Its very HARD to walk away someone you love, once loved or even just care about..VERY HARD.

This so true. I know she's a liar and we're on a four day mini vacation and having just the best time. She's so great in so many ways and accepts and loves me just as i am (which is, btw, pretty ****ed up) but the lying business I just can't live with. No matter how great she is for me in so many ways, no matter how much I love her, no matter how much she loves me, if I can't trust her, then that's that. Right now, we're doing a long distance relationship and meeting once every month or two. That's hard enough without trust being a issue, because she leads a life (musician in a band, an outrageous provocative dresser, flashy as they come) that is super conducive to temptations of all kinds.

Thanks for singling that line out. I think.



People make mistakes..but what is good for a relationship is owning up to them...expecially when caught.

She will not own up. She has a problem with appearing guilty of anything much less this kind of mess. She has a driven need to appear innocent, no matter what. She's done this kind of thing once before. Fool me once ...

I don't know how old you are. I am 53. I left someone a day or 2 ago (don't remember its very painful) after 3-4 yrs, because once again I was lied to...again..

We are both older than you are. I suspect that she thinks I'm the One for her, the one who will take care of her the rest of her life and there shall be no other. I feel close to that, too, but not so strongly, if only because there are other things about her that are not good for me.

If you love and care about this woman and want it to work really bad...sit her down..tell her gently you know she is lying and she can feel safe to tell you the truth and that you won't flip out or attack her (if that is TRUE). Give her one more chance to tell the truth.

If she doesn't...tell the truth (the story will make sense if she is honest)...there will me no hesitation...there will be tears..there will be trust in you enough to open up to you....

Even if she tells the truth, I don't know if I'll be able to get over it.
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Unread 08-10-2017, 10:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Refusing to fess up to the truth is something I'd have a big issue with, too. Especially over something as trivial as a di*k pic on a train (from a woman over 50) that's even more strange. Extreme provocative dresser over 50... well, if you got it, flaunt it, but it's also a sign that she's a big flirt.
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Unread 08-10-2017, 11:01 AM   #25
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

It sounds like failing to accurately report each embarrassing detail about something that she did two years ago, before she knew you, constitutes a deal-breaking lie for you.
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Unread 08-10-2017, 11:25 AM   #26
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

kinda like, bill. as i've said before, it's not the dic pick that's got me all in a dander so much as it is the lying about it and trying to sweep it away. she has said repeatedly she no longer wants to talk about anything untoward that happened in our past. Let's wipe the slate clean and move on. Easy for her to say, not for me.

A few weeks earlier, after one of our rows, she wrote a note to her best friend, my sister, who thought, best friend or not, I should see it. She wrote:

"I panicked and did a bad thing two nights ago. I called [my abusive narcissist exboyfriend], and he came over ... It was the sudden overwhelming panic of the looming crushing loneliness beckoning to me. Today, guess who knocked on my door but [my abusive ex], bringing me juice he'd made and tomatoes from the garden. Going to see my therapist later. I don't even know if I can tell her about [my abusive ex]."

Here's her explanation, which seems to me to be overly long and confusing. Basically, she's telling me that the Sunday night visit never happened and that it got typed there by mistake:

She wrote, "Stand back put on your robes of compassion and empathy. I did not call him and he did not come over. I do not have a phone number for that person. I deleted it from my phone, my contacts list, my car, all places it had been. I thought I had lost you, and I wanted to commit anew to no contact by telling that person directly to stay the **** out of my life. And I had no idea that person would show up on my doorstep to return a few things of mine, finally, after this whole time, because I guess he finally got that I was deadly serious."

(I mean, deadly serious about no-contact and he shows up two days later with gifts? She did not tell me what they spoke about, but I know she didn't tell him to get lost, to respect her no-contact wishes and like that.)

She goes on, "It got written the way it was written because I’d had hardly any sleep, I hadn’t eaten anything, I was likely very hung over, I could have been stoned, and I was scared, terrified that I had lost you. I have been completely beside myself; some days I forget to take my meds, and you know that isn’t good either. I’ve forgotten to eat, or haven’t been able to. I haven’t been able to sleep. The looming crushing loneliness beckoning was activated by you leaving me…I didn’t feel that when I knew you were with me. The crushing loneliness came from thinking I’d lost the love of my life, and that I was helpless to do anything about it"

And there you have it. It's easier for me to believe this one than the dic pic one, but, man, that line about calling him is direct, to the point and without equivocation. it doesn't seem like it came from someone who was hungover, high, off her meds, or starving. Your take?

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Unread 08-10-2017, 11:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
Originally Posted by TishaBuv View Post
Refusing to fess up to the truth is something I'd have a big issue with, too. Especially over something as trivial as a di*k pic on a train (from a woman over 50) that's even more strange. Extreme provocative dresser over 50... well, if you got it, flaunt it, but it's also a sign that she's a big flirt.
Well, it didn't start on the train train ride and it didn't end on the train ride and he eventually, she says, became a stalker. There's more to the story -- maybe even more picture swapping -- than she's said, and I don't blame her for not wanting to say more.

She's over fifty but does not look it at all. She's outrageously and uniquely gorgeous, so she dresses to take advantage of all that she has to offer. She's also had a so-called boob job and has always told me she got it to make herself happy with her looks and that it had nothing to do with attracting the stares and interest of men. She always get mad when I say, say, "Yeah, but ..." And she does put down Hollywood women who have had their breasts enhanced purely for the attention, in her eyes.

But then comes the hypocritical moment when she sends big-dic guy a photo of herself that is "certainly boobilus" and for a while, until she got too many PMs probably like the one from the 29 year old, she used a picture on the dating site that had her breasts bursting from their corset, literally. So she took it down, used another photo, then went back to the breasts bursting photo for a while, then took it down again. So, she used that pic twice that I can see to specifically attract the attention of men. Nothing wrong with that, except she doesn't own up to it, not one bit ever

So, yeah, she really is something else ..
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Unread 08-10-2017, 12:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
I thought I had lost you, and I wanted to commit anew to no contact by telling that person directly to stay the **** out of my life.
This passage puzzles me because it makes it sound like she wanted to contact him, and perhaps did contact him, even after having just told you in the preceding two sentences that she could not contact him as she did not have his number.

Quote:
The crushing loneliness came from thinking I’d lost the love of my life, and that I was helpless to do anything about it
To what extent do you believe this?

You asked for my take. I look at it in three steps.

1. How much do you believe this passage, that you are the love of her life?

If there is a lot of truth in that, then:

2. How do you feel about her, aside from the lying?

If you got past the first two steps, then the third step is perhaps the most challenging.

3. Everyone is flawed, of course, and I do not judge her; in fact, I have a lot of compassion for her. But it seems that a relationship with her comes with a lot of challenges. Take for example contacting the abusive ex. I can believe it could happen innocently; I can believe that in a fit of despair she would almost by reflex contact someone that had been a consistent place for her, even if abusive (similarly, people are often reluctant to leave their abusive partners in the first place). But it sounds like there might be a lot of such events/drama in her life. So even if her heart is in the right place (see question 1 above), I think that there are going to be times that it will be challenging to be with her.

I'm not so sure that you can't trust her--I mean, for example, I'm not so sure that she would just out-and-out betray you by intentionally sleeping with somebody else when under no emotional duress--but she sounds very stressable and impulsive, inclined to do things that are not outright betrayals but are hard for her to admit to and hard for her to explain. If I am right, and if you are with her, that will make things challenging for you.

How much do you find that when she feels safe, she is still impulsive and volatile? Or does that tend to fade when she feels safe?

So if you can trust her in the sense that she won't out-and-out betray you, but she is very challenging in her impulsiveness and lack of candor about it: what do you think? Do you/could you care enough about her to be willing to try to deal with the challenges that she inevitably brings?
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Unread 08-10-2017, 01:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
This passage puzzles me because it makes it sound like she wanted to contact him, and perhaps did contact him, even after having just told you in the preceding two sentences that she could not contact him as she did not have his number.

[b]She's saying that she did not call him and did not invite him over. What really happened, she says, is that on that Sunday she wrote him an email restating no commitment. So: either she called and he came over (and then what happened? did they sleep together? i'll never know). Or, she wrote him an email saying no contact was still in effect, without having any reason I could see for her to send that email, because presumably no contact had still been lived up to. She's saying what she feels so bad about, maybe doesn't want to tell her shrink about, is breaking no [contact to restate no contact, which seems weird to me but who knows?

To what extent do you believe this?

You asked for my take. I look at it in three steps.

1. How much do you believe this passage, that you are the love of her life?

I believe it about 92%. We have a lot in common: the same terrible childhoods, the same chronic illnesses, the same way of viewing the world, same sense of humor, love PDA, like to hold hands. When we go to parties, she does not flirt, nor do I, so we're on the same page with that.
I do sense she has a lot of secrets, however, that the love her life will never know about unless she slips up. Early in our relationship, she said that she's never cheated on a bf. Then, a while later, she began talking about the "only" time she cheated on a bf, with another guy who thought he was her boyfriend too. So, basically, she was cheating on two guys at once.
I've noticed that when we're with her old friends, she monitors my conversations and glides in effortlessly to forestall further talk when it's about her and the old days ...


If there is a lot of truth in that, then:

2. How do you feel about her, aside from the lying?

Well, I do wish she'd tone down her manner of dress a little, maybe cover up those big breasts a little, maybe not have this crazy need to be the focus of attention wherever she goes (and also claim that she doesn't care about that at all), and she gets it, from men and women. But other than that one big thing and that one smaller thing, she's about as perfect as they come, for me, despite what my therapist says (see below).

If you got past the first two steps, then the third step is perhaps the most challenging.

3. Everyone is flawed, of course, and I do not judge her; in fact, I have a lot of compassion for her. But it seems that a relationship with her comes with a lot of challenges. Take for example contacting the abusive ex. I can believe it could happen innocently; I can believe that in a fit of despair she would almost by reflex contact someone that had been a consistent place for her, even if abusive (similarly, people are often reluctant to leave their abusive partners in the first place). But it sounds like there might be a lot of such events/drama in her life. So even if her heart is in the right place (see question 1 above), I think that there are going to be times that it will be challenging to be with her.

Yes, this is absolutely true. She's going to be challenging for me a lot of the time. My therapist once said, she might be a great a woman, but I do not think she is the right sort of woman for you.
(Not unimportant here is the fact that I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD and trust/betrayal issues are a big part of cPTSD. So, yeah, she will be challenging for me in particular.)
Drama might as well be her middle name. I mean, she's the lead singer, songwriter and leader of a band that has some notoriety in the local area and beyond, so drama might expected from one such as her.


I'm not so sure that you can't trust her--I mean, for example, I'm not so sure that she would just out-and-out betray you by intentionally sleeping with somebody else when under no emotional duress--but she sounds very stressable and impulsive, inclined to do things that are not outright betrayals but are hard for her to admit to and hard for her to explain. If I am right, and if you are with her, that will make things challenging for you.

How much do you find that when she feels safe, she is still impulsive and volatile? Or does that tend to fade when she feels safe?

This is so insightful of you. Unbelievably so and incredibly helpful to me as I try to sort this out. First, she was under stress in both of the cases above, both of them having to do with abject loneliness and the need to connect with someone, anyone. Don't exactly buy that for the dic pic incident, however, for various reasons. But I know she was having a horrible time w/ her then-abusive narcissist boyfriend. She's also under stresses of all kinds all the time, mainly related to health issues and chronic pain.
When she feels safe, she is not one bit volatile and impulsive only with her shopping. As far as I know. She's genius-level smart, though, and has sides of her I've never seen, if only because they're not relevant to our relationship, in her opinion. Foreign languages learned in an instant, got an MBA just to get one, love of astrophysics, knows more about medicine than most doctors, can talk about anything with anyone, was invited to MIT to mediate conversations between scientists and the loopily creatives, because she has her feet solidly planted in both worlds. She is a remarkable person.


So if you can trust her in the sense that she won't out-and-out betray you, but she is very challenging in her impulsiveness and lack of candor about it: what do you think? Do you/could you care enough about her to be willing to try to deal with the challenges that she inevitably brings?
This is the crux of the matter, isn't it? This is the one big toughie question. If I wasn't saddled with massive childhood abuse that led to the cPTSD diagnosis, I'd 100% try to deal with the challenges. No doubt. But, I come with that problem, so the lack of candor thing weighs more on me than it might most people, because lack of candor means that, in certain situations, under certain circumstances, she will probably reach for an old ex or do the dic pic thing and then lie about it.
I just don't know. Also: if such is the case with her, then that it'll be up to me and me alone to try to soften all rows that develop, lest she feel that aching loneliness to leads her to do these other ... things.

I thank you beyond words for taking the time to pen your thoughts out in full. So good of you, so helpful to me.

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Unread 08-10-2017, 01:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: So I snooped and maybe she's lying about what I found

Bill

Certain things about her behavior that you describe is getting a little close to home for me, and why I got diagnosed with Borderline traits.
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