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Unread 08-12-2017, 10:35 PM   #71
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

Honestly guys, I think it was mostly me being overly sensitive due to a huge amount of stress I am going through. Yes, I did take some things you said wrong, Darkness, but I also was thinking maybe I had. Which was why I pm you. You and I are great friends I believe and so I feel safe in doing that. Thank you for explaining. I do believe you can have a romantic relationship if you ever choose, but unfortunately with that comes a lot of heartache both in finding "the right one" and in trying to establish and grow the relationship, so you also have to be willing to see it through even through the crappy times. Even those couples that present as "happy couples" have moments in time when they would like nothing more than to just disappear or leave or get physically violent, but if a couple is generally genuinely happy and truly loves one another, those thoughts are just that, thoughts...they may scream n cry n slam doors though, but in the end, they will work it through. So, there are happy couples, but not perfect couples. It's my experience many confuse happiness with perfection when it comes to love (at least initially), so if you are getting upset bc you can't find perfection, don't..you never will...BUT...you can find someone who wants nothing more than your happiness, love, affection, and acceptance ... and is willing to do what it takes to assure those things take place both for her and you. Anyway...sorry if I spoke where I should not.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 08:21 AM   #72
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patagonia View Post
I think my views of marriage have changed since I've been married for 23 yrs. what I thought was valuable in my early 20's has definitely changed.
I was very naive in what I what I wanted & was taught to want. I did it by everyone else's rules.
And by their rules I should be very happy.
Yeah no one can guarantee us happiness.

But I think your view on marriage might have changed because you married a bad match and realized it later one. As many of us did, especially marrying in young age. Then we want spouses to change into something they aren't. That's a recipe for disaster.

My first husband and I were not a good match, the only thing we were good together at was co-parenting. Which I am grateful for. I don't think it's society that made me choose a spouse. Neither then nor now. Second time around (many years later). I knew to choose a better match so I have a better marriage. But I was single for many years in between and it was just fine on all accounts, at no point I felt I needed to be married to be happy. Many people chose right the first time (often because they didn't grow in disfynction). But it wasn't society's doing.

I grew up in dysfunctional family and fought hard not to live in dysfunction. It's all my choice. I refuse to be a victim of other people or said society (within legal limits).
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Unread 08-13-2017, 11:08 AM   #73
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Societal norms play a role in our choices whether we are capable of seeing this or not. I'm not making this up (what would be in it for me to make such a thing up?) If we were raised in a society where nobody got married, we wouldn't either. If we were raised in a society where women covered up from head to toe, we would to. It's not about assigning blame or not taking personal responsibility for our own choices it just how things work. My friend who is Christian honestly believes that if she were raised in a Muslim country with Muslim parents she'd still be a Christian because she makes her own choices. Not true or logical but people can believe what they like.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 11:23 AM   #74
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

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Societal norms play a role in our choices whether we are capable of seeing this or not. I'm not making this up (what would be in it for me to make such a thing up?) If we were raised in a society where nobody got married, we wouldn't either. If we were raised in a society where women covered up from head to toe, we would to. It's not about assigning blame or not taking personal responsibility for our own choices it just how things work. My friend who is Christian honestly believes that if she were raised in a Muslim country with Muslim parents she'd still be a Christian because she makes her own choices. Not true or logical but people can believe what they like.
Honestly, not caring about what other people think can be so liberating.

I stopped giving a damn about what society wants out of me a long time ago and do things my own way now. After finding out that my mother lied to me my whole life and finally accepting the fact that I was abused, I stopped giving a damn about societal expectations and I learned how to question everything. If people don't like me because I'm different, than it's their fault and problem and not mine.

In fact, I was actually told that because of how closed off to suggestion that I am, I would be nearly impossible to hypnotize. I trust nobody and nothing and I always question everything. Mine is the only way.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 12:15 PM   #75
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

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Honestly, not caring about what other people think can be so liberating.

I stopped giving a damn about what society wants out of me a long time ago and do things my own way now. After finding out that my mother lied to me my whole life and finally accepting the fact that I was abused, I stopped giving a damn about societal expectations and I learned how to question everything. If people don't like me because I'm different, than it's their fault and problem and not mine.

In fact, I was actually told that because of how closed off to suggestion that I am, I would be nearly impossible to hypnotize. I trust nobody and nothing and I always question everything. Mine is the only way.
I agree, it is possible to be your own person without letting others or society influence you, in fact that's one of the many things my mom told us as children over n over until.it sank in

As to the Muslim v Christian example given by Elsa (the one you responded to), there are Christian people who live in those countries, but are forced to remain quiet about it due to the very real possibility of being shot or beheaded for their beliefs. Many people go with societal norms not because society "forces" it on them, (How can you technically force anyone to do anything unless you are physically manipulating them? All you can do at worst is threaten or kill them for doing something different.) but because they are afraid of "standing out" and being "different" and possibly being picked on, ridiculed, threatened, beat up, or worse. I am proud of you Darkness, because you don't give in to those fears. It isn't bad to listen to and consider advice though, but that doesn't mean you have to take it if you don't want to. As to some who think I would not have gotten married had I known I would lose my insurance premium help, I would still have gotten married but would have first designed a plan to prepare for that. You and I are a bit alike in that manner, Darkness, we don't truly care what others think. The difference is you take that notion to more of an extreme than I and to be honest, I am not sure if that's good or bad because sometimes I get hurt from letting ppl get to me but I see you sometimes hurt bc you don't let ppl close enough. I'm not sure what the middle ground is, or if there is one. I do believe we are right in one thing: remaining true to ourselves and don't let others get in the way of that.

Please don't take any of what I said wrong. I was agreeing with you, commending you, and offering up a bit of information both from my experiences and knowledge, none of which was meant to criticize or insult in any way.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 12:22 PM   #76
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

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Originally Posted by Crypts_Of_The_Mind View Post
I agree, it is possible to be your own person without letting others or society influence you, in fact that's one of the many things my mom told us as children over n over until.it sank in

As to the Muslim v Christian example given by Elsa (the one you responded to), there are Christian people who live in those countries, but are forced to remain quiet about it due to the very real possibility of being shot or beheaded for their beliefs. Many people go with societal norms not because society "forces" it on them, (How can you technically force anyone to do anything unless you are physically manipulating them? All you can do at worst is threaten or kill them for doing something different.) but because they are afraid of "standing out" and being "different" and possibly being picked on, ridiculed, threatened, beat up, or worse.
Well to be fair, I am an atheist who lives in a Bible Belt state. That alone should tell you how little I care about societal norms and external influences

I do see where you're coming from and I do appreciate the kind words though.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 12:25 PM   #77
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarknessIsMyFriend View Post
Honestly, not caring about what other people think can be so liberating.

I stopped giving a damn about what society wants out of me a long time ago and do things my own way now. After finding out that my mother lied to me my whole life and finally accepting the fact that I was abused, I stopped giving a damn about societal expectations and I learned how to question everything. If people don't like me because I'm different, than it's their fault and problem and not mine.

In fact, I was actually told that because of how closed off to suggestion that I am, I would be nearly impossible to hypnotize. I trust nobody and nothing and I always question everything. Mine is the only way.
I agree, it is possible to be your own person without letting others or society influence you, in fact that's one of the many things my mom told us as children over n over until.it sank in

As to the Muslim v Christian example given by Elsa (the one you responded to), there are Christian people who live in those countries, but are forced to remain quiet about it due to the very real possibility of being shot or beheaded for their beliefs. Many people go with societal norms not because society "forces" it on them, (How can you technically force anyone to do anything unless you are physically manipulating them? All you can do at worst is threaten or kill them for doing something different.) but because they are afraid of "standing out" and being "different" and possibly being picked on, ridiculed, threatened, beat up, or worse. I am proud of you Darkness, because you don't give in to those fears. It isn't bad to listen to and consider advice though, but that doesn't mean you have to take it if you don't want to. As to some who think I would not have gotten married had I known I would lose my insurance premium help, I would still have gotten married but would have first designed a plan to prepare for that. You and I are a bit alike in that manner, Darkness, we don't truly care what others think. The difference is you take that notion to more of an extreme than I and to be honest, I am not sure if that's good or bad because sometimes I get hurt from letting ppl get to me but I see you sometimes hurt bc you don't let ppl close enough. I'm not sure what the middle ground is, or if there is one. I do believe we are right in one thing: remaining true to ourselves and don't let others get in the way of that.

Please don't take any of what I said wrong. I was agreeing with you, commending you, and offering up a bit of information both from my experiences and knowledge, none of which was meant to criticize or insult in any way.

Also, just so you know Elsa, my comment about "some people thinking I would not marry" was not "directed at you - a few ppl have assumed that, and I generally choose not to correct it for argument's sake. In this response I found it a relevant bit of information and is the only reason I included it.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 04:49 PM   #78
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

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Societal norms play a role in our choices whether we are capable of seeing this or not. I'm not making this up (what would be in it for me to make such a thing up?) If we were raised in a society where nobody got married, we wouldn't either. If we were raised in a society where women covered up from head to toe, we would to. It's not about assigning blame or not taking personal responsibility for our own choices it just how things work. My friend who is Christian honestly believes that if she were raised in a Muslim country with Muslim parents she'd still be a Christian because she makes her own choices. Not true or logical but people can believe what they like.
Yes there are certain societal norms. I think you are simplifying it all a bit.

Sure if we lived in the society where no one married we wouldn't be married either. Or if we lived in the society where everyone was married, we would be married too. But most of us posting on this thread don't live in such societies. We live in the world where some people marry and some don't or some marry and then divorce. That's why so many of us chose different lives of ourselves. There is no requirement to be married at all.

There is a certain advantage of living in the Western world is that we are lucky to have a lot of different choices. There was is no ONE society in Europe or US or Canada. There are many fluid societies here and many ways of life. Certainly if I was born in the society where a woman must be married to survive id most certainly marry young and stay married and wouldn't dream of living any different way.

But I don't live in such country. I lived in both Europe and the US. There is no obligation to be married in neither places. I and many others are lucky in that sense. I felt just as good as single woman and as divorced and as married. I can't care less what society says. At no point I felt pressure to change my life style. I wasn't treated any different either.

Now if anyone posted on this thread that they were raised in culture where one must be married, then of course I'd agree with them. But so far it wasn't the case.

As about your friend...There are people who convert into different faith and yes there are Christians and Jews in Muslim countries. Your friend wouldn't be able to be Christian as a child if she was raised in Muslim family. But theoretically it's entirely possible that she could convert to Chrtianity as an adult. It's not unheard of. People do convert. It's not always easy but it happens. I know people of different faith in different countries, including christians from Muslim countries . So she isn't wrong in theory

Ps I think overall you are comparing completely different things. Things that are required in certain areas/cultures (such as women being covered) and things that aren't required in main stream society we are discussing (most people on this thread live in the US)-being married/staying married isn't a requirement. If someone feels obligated to marry against their true desire and stay married no matter what, it's not society' s doing.

Last edited by divine1966; 08-13-2017 at 05:10 PM.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 07:02 PM   #79
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

If we look at the timeline of marriage as a sacrament or a legal binding agreement, it has been around for centuries.
The acceptance of divorce especially in the western world has really only taken off in the last 20-40 yrs. Basically it's still in its infancy compared to the legacy that marriage has on society.
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Unread 08-13-2017, 07:15 PM   #80
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Default Re: Finding it hard to stay faithful to one man

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Well to be fair, I am an atheist who lives in a Bible Belt state. That alone should tell you how little I care about societal norms and external influences

I do see where you're coming from and I do appreciate the kind words though.
Honestly, I am Christian n lived in a Bible belt state (not for that reason, it was just where life landed me at the time), and I'm here to tell you, people there - at least the 100 or so I met, are anything but "Christian", or if they are they twisted the Bible to fit their purposes rather than changing themselves to fit the Bible. I had to get out of there bc I felt myself and saw myself losing evermore of my sanity. Getting out of there proved to be an almost insurmountable task ...but after 15yrs, I finally accomplished it. People here are odd and like playing mind games. I don't like it here for that reason either, but people there enjoyed, even thrived off causing one another pain and hardship. If you are able to withstand it and maintain your sanity, you are much stronger than I.
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