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Old 08-07-2018, 03:58 AM   #11
koru_kiwi
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Probably more than anyone wanted to know, but it really is kind of fascinating. I'm hoping it can help
wow! thanks for such a detailed description of the assessment she gave you. the assessment that i completed was not exactly the same, but similar. there was the eyes open and eyes closed section, i read a passage out of a book, and then there was part where i had to listen to a strange kind of 'static' noise in headphones. when my clinician explained the results of the assessment and the reasons for why they were that way based on my EEG data, i found it quite fascinating to hear, especially in regard to my truama symptoms.

your tiredness may have a slight effect on the results, but overall i do not think it will make much of a difference since the EEG is measuring and comparing different types (frequencies) of brain waves in various regions of your brain when you were doing the tasks she had you complete.

again, thanks for sharing and definitly post an update after you get your results.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:10 PM   #12
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Thanks for describing your experience too, Koru-Kiwi. I went back this afternoon to talk about the results.

I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I felt... really profoundly disappointed.

I felt kind of "unseen". There were things that she said that were absolutely 100% accurate, but also, things that didn't resonate or that I couldn't quite make sense of. And, I felt like it missed a lot.

She moved on to the "let me tell you about the packages we offer" part of the presentation, and I started to make confused faces, trying to figure out what/how to ask. She asked me what was going on, and I told her that I was confused... that it missed big things. I have a trauma history. I was once diagnosed with a dissociative disorder. I'm extremely difficult for therapists to deal with (this has been confirmed by more than one therapist).

I just thought that more of this would be reflected. She said the dissociation was a surprise, that there's usually something very specific she sees, and I have no sign of it in my brain. She talked a little about trauma and how it could relate, but I didn't feel like she pulled everything together.

And, maybe that's part of it? I think that she very much presented it like, "I see this. It means this. I see this other thing, and it means this other thing." She really didn't do any kind of integration of the results. I don't know if that's typical, but it would perhaps make more sense.

I was also disappointed in that we talked about me not having the best memory, and while we talked, I specifically asked if she was going to send a report (otherwise, I'd want to take notes). Yes, she sent it - but it's pretty bare bones. None of the recommendations she talked about are in there at all! Heck, she didn't even include information on the services that they provide. I would have liked to have been able to read through that and consider my options, away from the office, but that's not even an option.

Ugh. Just really disappointed. I'm glad that I got a discounted rate. I think it was interesting and worth what I paid, but I would have felt really awful if I'd paid the full fee!

The report is hard to make sense of. In one place, it says that alpha was high... but then it talks (a lot) about it being a little low - which she mentioned. She said that for most adults, it's 10Hz, but mine was at like... 9.5. In person, she said 9.8. And it's probably a range. But (and I wish I had thought to ask!) I'm wondering how serious a 0.5 Hz difference really is?

A lot of focus on sleep issues and a high beta that doesn't shut down when I close my mind, which is true. I'm usually still exhausted when I wake up (though I'm making some changes in my diet, exercise, routine, etc that I believe will help - it's helped before!).

But, she also mentioned trouble *falling* asleep. Sometimes that's a problem for me, but it's not a constant issue that really bugs me. I have trouble *going to sleep* (actually disengaging, turning off the light, and going to bed) - but once I do, I think I fall asleep pretty quickly (unless it's too early to sleep).

Interesting, there are some notes in the report that say some things "suggest the subconscious emotions (i.e. trauma, resentment, fear) may be impacting conscious decision making behind the scenes" - I think if she had talked about that, it would have resonated and made me feel like she was "getting it". But, she didn't mention that, even when I brought up having a trauma history!

She also talked about "hot temporals" (?) - and said there are two ways that can show up. The first, which is 100% accurate for me, is an inability to "tune out" noises. I have this, and it drives me nuts... in fact, during the test, I was noticing sounds from the other offices. While in the waiting room, I was hearing sounds from behind the wall that were odd, trying to figure out what they were. Her example was getting irritated when taking a test in school, because someone is tapping their pencil - and that was totally me - it was MADDENING b/c I couldn't focus on the questions at all. She said that my brain literally can't read/answer the questions, for example, without paying attention to the noise. (In fact, this has come up with my last two therapists... my last one actually put sound proofing in his ceiling, because I was so distracted/upset by hearing people talking on the other side of the wall.)

So. I don't know. I didn't leave feeling really understood, or feeling like she could actually help. She didn't really spend any time talking about treatment would look like, what kind of changes were possible, or what the risks were at all. The office is hard to get to, and it's expensive (you have to commit to the whole program of sessions, not just "come and pay and see how it works for you" - plus the program includes things like meeting with their health counselor and doing nutritional testing. I think that stuff *could* be good, but I don't really know much about the other people who work there and it just feels a bit... eh... to me.)

It also worries me that there was no discussion at all of how to proceed with treatment re: the trauma. I've been googling a bit, and have seen that some people have real problems when they try NFB with trauma or repressed memories. Stuff pops up and it can be very destabilizing. I've been very destabilized from therapy in the past... just from being pushed too hard, too fast to get in to the trauma. I would have liked her to have said something about that... maybe just to acknowledge it, or talk about what she does to keep it from happening.

I don't think I'm going to go forward with it. I think I'd still consider doing NFB with someone... but I'd want to find someone closer, who doesn't require a commitment to an entire package of sessions, and who maybe has experience with dealing with trauma stuff.

Phew! I know, that's a lot! Thanks... I really appreciate being able to "unload" it here. I've actually written to my therapist too (and she told me I could, if I needed support), but I think she's not going to write back, so I was feeling a little unheard there too (though I told her in my email that "I'm OK" - so maybe she won't think it's necessary.)

I'm also considering getting a system that does "entrainment" at home... she talked a little about this, you have to do it more often than NFB, but it basically just creates a frequency (with sounds, and maybe lights?) and your brain naturally matches it. I need to look in to it more, but it might be a cheaper, easier way to get some of the benefits. Maybe?

Thanks!!!
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Old 08-13-2018, 03:39 AM   #13
koru_kiwi
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Originally Posted by guilloche View Post
I'm not sure exactly what happened, but I felt... really profoundly disappointed.

I felt kind of "unseen". There were things that she said that were absolutely 100% accurate, but also, things that didn't resonate or that I couldn't quite make sense of. And, I felt like it missed a lot.

I don't think I'm going to go forward with it. I think I'd still consider doing NFB with someone... but I'd want to find someone closer, who doesn't require a commitment to an entire package of sessions, and who maybe has experience with dealing with trauma stuff.
thanks for sharing all of that. your experince sounds quite different to the one i had. sorry to hear that it was disappointing...i too felt a bit disappointed just reading your account of it and also would feel put off if the clinician was trying to push 'package deals' on to me. from what you have shared here, my gut tells me that this probably is not the right clinic to go to address truama and dissociation. i hope you do find another place that is closer to you that can help to address your truama symptoms. i beleive i already mentioned this in an earlier post, but i would recommend that if you do seek someone else out, ask if they are familiar with Sebern Fisher and her NFB protocols for developmental trauma/c-PTSD. i used many of her protocols to address my truama symptoms, including my dissociatiive disorder. She also offers training to therapist and clinicians who are interested in using NFB. you may be interested in reading her book as well, it is quite informative about developmental truama and how to address it with NFB: 'Neurofeedback In the Treatment of Developmental Truama' Neurofeedback in the Treatment of Developmental Trauma | Sebern Fisher

good luck!
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:46 PM   #14
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Thanks, Koru-Kiwi. And, thanks for the recommendation. I have the Sebern Fisher book... I got it recently after seeing a strong recommendation on reddit, but haven't had a chance to dive in yet. But, it's on my list to read. I'll keep looking to see who else I can find locally.

Thanks!
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