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Old 09-02-2018, 12:10 AM   #1
ArchieAus
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Default Universal Basic Income

Could it really work ? As like described by Rutger Bregman . A set allowance for everyone in society. If you listen to him his theories are very interesting . I actually think it is the way forward . But a fantasy in our current society . There is no way the elite 5% who control the world would let it happen . The rest of us are only here to make that 5% richer .
Our system is slowly failing though , eventually we will have to find another way . But for the current system to collapse completely we will probably need a WWIII or a GFC which goes to meltdown , so I hope it's after I'm gone to be honest . We will also have to find another way of selecting our leaders . The least constructive traits of human beings are greed , and a lust for power . We all have these traits in varying strengths in our character , the bad thing is for people to get to the levels of leadership in our society they need to have the highest levels of a lust for power and greed . Then after that the biggest liar wins . We need to change the selection process . Choose leaders according to human nature traits that are good , not bad ...and find a way good people can get to positions of authority .
Universal Basic Income . Rutgers Bregman , check it out . Utopia .
The studies show mental health issues drop in real life studies following these principles .. not to mention crime dropping and medical issues lowering . Happy people ... crazy ideas huh .
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:20 AM   #2
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I love the idea of a universal basic income, and every study I've heard of on the topic has portrayed it in a positive light. I fantasize about having an income like that some times, thinking of all the things I would be able to afford and all the people around me I would be able to help support.
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Old 09-02-2018, 12:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchieAus View Post
Could it really work ? As like described by Rutger Bregman . A set allowance for everyone in society. If you listen to him his theories are very interesting . I actually think it is the way forward . But a fantasy in our current society . There is no way the elite 5% who control the world would let it happen . The rest of us are only here to make that 5% richer .
Our system is slowly failing though , eventually we will have to find another way . But for the current system to collapse completely we will probably need a WWIII or a GFC which goes to meltdown , so I hope it's after I'm gone to be honest . We will also have to find another way of selecting our leaders . The least constructive traits of human beings are greed , and a lust for power . We all have these traits in varying strengths in our character , the bad thing is for people to get to the levels of leadership in our society they need to have the highest levels of a lust for power and greed . Then after that the biggest liar wins . We need to change the selection process . Choose leaders according to human nature traits that are good , not bad ...and find a way good people can get to positions of authority .
Universal Basic Income . Rutgers Bregman , check it out . Utopia .
The studies show mental health issues drop in real life studies following these principles .. not to mention crime dropping and medical issues lowering . Happy people ... crazy ideas huh .
interesting idea but I dont ever see it happening and heres why....

everyone in the whole world gets paid at minimum wage (about 1000 a month give or take)

a painter spends about 1000-3000 to paint the outside of someones house average sized home they have just used up their monthly income and more painting someones house.

a farmer spends this and more (seeds, seedlings, plants, fertilizer, water, equipment, harvesting, shipping to stores) the food we eat.

my point though its an interesting idea if it ever actually happened where everyone in the whole world was paid a set amount it could very well lead to the human extinction.

if you mean everyone in a set job gets paid a certain amount that already happens. its called salary pay. we have careers and jobs that are set at minimum wage and we have careers and jobs based on hours put in, ( time and labor)
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Old 09-02-2018, 05:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

UBI would be a set amount paid to every citizen according to the purist form of the theory . Any paid work would be above and beyond that and taxed accordingly . How do you pay for that ? If you believe the supporters of the idea ( and it's not new , it dates back 500 years ) the savings from welfare and lower social disfunction costs would fund it . So no one would bother working , that is what people say who don't support the idea . Maybe that's true , but in the studies they did in Dauphin Canada in the 1970's it reflected a 5% drop in work hours and mainly attributed to mothers and people returning to school to increase their skills .

It's a theory and I'm not going to parrot fashion it here . If interested you can research yourself . I do think our current system is past it's use by date though . If a space man came down and you were trying to explain our system to them it would seem a bit odd don't you think . Hello Mr spaceman , yes that's right 3% of the population control 90% of the worlds wealth . We still have poverty and we still have working poor and struggling lower middle class who continue to make bad choices and cost the state huge amounts of money as they are desperately unhappy . 80% of our income tax goes to funding the welfare system , so in effect we have not enough money left to run the current system anyway . Our system is based on greed and a lust for power by the few . We are indoctrinated in school that this is the only way , so we just accept it and meekly plod along . We live in a world where people who are good at playing basketball get 50k a game , and people who collect the garbage and keep our health safe are on minimum wage crazy .
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise View Post
interesting idea but I dont ever see it happening and heres why....

everyone in the whole world gets paid at minimum wage (about 1000 a month give or take)

a painter spends about 1000-3000 to paint the outside of someones house average sized home they have just used up their monthly income and more painting someones house.

a farmer spends this and more (seeds, seedlings, plants, fertilizer, water, equipment, harvesting, shipping to stores) the food we eat.

my point though its an interesting idea if it ever actually happened where everyone in the whole world was paid a set amount it could very well lead to the human extinction.

if you mean everyone in a set job gets paid a certain amount that already happens. its called salary pay. we have careers and jobs that are set at minimum wage and we have careers and jobs based on hours put in, ( time and labor)

Sorry to revive a 3 month old thread. I was looking for something else in this forum but came across this article and well, I can't resist.


Anyways, I am an advocate of UBI and I think we will have to switch to it eventually.


Let's face it, within 20-30 years robots will replace manual labor jobs and many other jobs that aren't STEM related. Robots will take over and nothing can be done about it. Those painting and farming jobs you mentioned will be done entirely by robots; it's only a matter of when. With that being said, the world would benefit as a whole from such a situation.


I would simply say, once AI becomes sufficiently advanced to take over all of the manual labor jobs (let's face it, who the hell WANTS to work a manual labor job), we give the people displaced by such a change UBI along with all disabled and low income people. We could simply take and consolidate all welfare and disability programs into UBI, which would help cover the costs.


In such a system, work would shift to the more educated populace since jobs would be primarily STEM and medical jobs, while everybody else gets enough to get their needs met. That way, there would still be incentive to get an education and get a good job, the economy doesn't collapse and everybody has their needs met.


Just the view of somebody with a passing interest in transhumanism.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

Even STEM and medical jobs are not protected from AI. Algorithms already do better in diagnosing a disease than an experienced doctor.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

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Originally Posted by Sans Nom View Post
Even STEM and medical jobs are not protected from AI. Algorithms already do better in diagnosing a disease than an experienced doctor.

True enough.


I see STEM jobs evolving with AI. Obviously some would disappear though.


Regardless, I would be OK with a world where money and work don't exist.


I would give anything to live in a fully augmented virtual reality world where I don't have to hurt anymore.
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Old 12-31-2018, 11:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

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Originally Posted by Sans Nom View Post
Even STEM and medical jobs are not protected from AI. Algorithms already do better in diagnosing a disease than an experienced doctor.
Soon AIs will be better at everything. Then who would want a human doctor? Or a human plumber? Or a human anything? I worry about what happens to people when they have no purpose.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:14 PM   #9
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Soon AIs will be better at everything. Then who would want a human doctor? Or a human plumber? Or a human anything? I worry about what happens to people when they have no purpose.

Make the robots do all the boring work and let humans do whatever they want.


I foresee something like a techno Anarchy where humans are free to do as they please but aren't allowed to wield any power. I would trust AI to run the functions of a government over human politicians since almost all humans are prone to corruption. A human with power is dangerous and untrustworthy.


Besides, I still want to live in a fully augmented virtual reality world or have my consciousness locked inside a video game. I already escape pain and loneliness through countless hours of gaming so why not live in one? I want to be done with this world already.
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Old 01-01-2019, 02:33 AM   #10
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Default Re: Universal Basic Income

Actually, we humans for the majority of our history as hunters-gatherers worked very little (we hunted a big game once every a while), and spent the majority of our time socializing and taking care of each others, exploring the world, and just ... having fun. The time humans have decided to settle down some 5000 years ago or so was the beginning of suffering for most humanity. Social hierarchy and slavery appeared only after we settled in villages and cities, and it continues in our society today in a form or another. Humans live longer on average now, sure, but this wasn't the case until recently (in the last 50 years).

Now most people work between 40-60 hours a week. There is no time for anyone, including children. The upside of AI is that maybe we can find more time to each others again. Maybe this is the purpose of humans after all. Work doesn't quench the soul's thirst, and people don't wish to have worked harder on their deathbeds. However, for this to happen, we need to restructure our society and economy, and redistribute the wealth in the age of AI where there will be less and less jobs for humans to do. Only time will tell what will actually happen. Humans are still resisting automation when they can. I know many customers don't use the self-check out machines because they take the cashiers jobs. Doctors are not convinced algorithms do better ... etc.
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