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Unread 09-22-2017, 06:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: This child is going to kill me.

Also, their father is a sperm bank. Literally. Just the Mom in this situation.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 06:29 AM   #12
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Rayne Selene. You should leave immediately. It is the right thing to do. I'm not sure why staying would even be an option. You posted about this before. You said Toby had autism. But this behavior doesn't sound like autism, even if he does have it. It sounds dangerous, and you need to leave. It is the professional, safe, and right thing to do.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 06:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayne Selene View Post
Thank you so much for your support and advice. When you're in something like this, it can be hard to see it clearly. I am so utterly shocked. Until now, I've considered them to be the absolute best family I've ever worked for. Their mom is responsive and attentive to them, she communicates well with me, and the other twin is a happy, thriving, extremely gifted child. Toby has had some behavioral problems; he's had tantrums, mood swings, and he's even hit/kicked/ or bitten me in anger before, but there was never anything like yesterday. Never anything that I would consider being outside the realm of just a difficult child. Yesterday though, he got angry, stewed on it, waited, and then sought out to hurt me in the best way he could. He waited until his brother was alone with him (that split second when I vlosed the car door) to hurt him. I am completely shocked. I have never seen anything in their household to justify this. They don't have pets, thank God. I do wonder if there are deeper psychological issues at play here with this child and whether he needs to be seen by a behavioral specialist and under the care of someone more trained than I. I have a psychology degree, but this is way out of my depth. I'm worried about my ability to handle it as well; I was SO angry with him after yesterday, I worry that in the future, I won't be able to remain calm, and might end up spanking/slapping out of anger, which I have never done to any child. That anger scares me. You're all right, time to move on
Yes, he does need to see a behavioral psychologist. He needs professional help. You have been assaulted by him. You need to get out.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 06:55 AM   #14
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Starrysky, I agree, and I'm going to. In the past, I've come here when I'm too upset to see straight; today, more just for affirmation as I make this decision. Toby is on the spectrum, I didn't mention it this time because it tends to dominate the conversation. And you're right, this is not a part of the normal territory that comes with Autism. That's part of what made me realize I can't do this; really can't. I was so unsettled because he wasn't in sensory overload, he wasn't anxious, he wasn't having a meltdown. He just set out to hurt, intentionally. And Autism definitely doesn't excuse that, and I don't know how to help him overcome that kind of urge. Time to go.

I don't think I'm going to nanny anymore, either. I've applied for jobs teaching ESL online, where I can work from home, work fewer hours, and set my own schedule; much easier and less stressful while I finish school. And away from biting teeth.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 07:46 AM   #15
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The moment I walked in today, their mom said, "Please don't quit on me!" Hello, guilt 😔 within five minutes of her leaving, I had been punched in the mouth again. So....yeah. I'm definitely done.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 12:20 PM   #16
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That mom needs to prioritize that child. This is the unfolding of issues that point to this kid being destined for a ruined life. She's asking you to stay, but I don't hear where she's saying she's making a plan to address this. This would be like your kid running a high fever, and you don't think you need to head for the pediatrician's office.

Number 1, she needs to call and make an appointment with her pediatrician. The child's doctor should then refer her to a child behavioral expert. And she needs to not delude herself that this is something that can principally be addressed with medication . . . which is what mothers nowadays often want to believe. I don't think it's just a coincidence that there is no father in this home. Depending on her resources, she may need to enroll this boy into a program for very maladjusted children. Here's a short article: Violent Behavior in Children and Adolescents

Here's another relevant article: Violent Behavior in Children and Adolescents

For you to stick around absorbing abuse from this child would be you enabling a bad situation, so jettison the guilt. The mother is in over her head with this and does not know how to effectively parent this child. It is probably indicated that this child attend a facility on a day basis, or as a resident. I've worked in child psychiatric treatment facilities. The kids are there for one reason: they are dangerous. Kids as young as five are treated in these places. Some go home every afternoon. Some are there round the clock. These are kids who could not be managed by their parents, or in "treatment foster care" because they are just too violent. Yes, as young as five. I didn't stay in this line of work long. It's extremely challenging. Working with adult inmates in prison is easier. But staff who do stay with this kind of work include some very gifted people and it does take very specialized training. Expecting you to deal with this behavior is ridiculous. The mother can't even deal with it. She needs major help from trained professionals.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 01:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: This child is going to kill me.

Holy cow! All I can do is agree with the others. Run fast...run far. You don't have the training to deal with this kind of child. To me he sounds more like a sociopath than autism. But that's just my opinion.
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Unread 09-22-2017, 05:42 PM   #18
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Sociopath and psychopathy (more commonly and scientifically Antisocial Personality Disorder) cannot be diagnosed until a person is 18 years old. The childhood equivalent (or precursor) would be Conduct Disorder, which is often seen with Oppositional Defiance Disorder.

My friends oldest son is diagnosed high functioning ADD, with severe ADHD, and probable Bipolar 1. He is just 11 or 12 now, so they are hesitant to diagnose the bipolar right now. But he did fit the criteria for ODD for a while. With therapy, and parenting changes, she was able to manage and help him with some off the worse behaviors. He was, however, nowhere near what "Toby" has done.

About Conduct Disorder:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduc...er?wprov=sfla1

Usually, I don't reference Wikipedia, but the author of this particular article did well and used a lot of references. Still, it is Wikipedia, so there is always the doubt of authenticity.
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Unread 09-23-2017, 12:25 AM   #19
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I think we overly rely on "the medical model." We tend to say what has this child "got" that is making him this way? Maybe it's what he "hasn't got" that is making him as he is. A human baby born into a middle class household with an educated mother is not born one bit more civilized than the baby who was born to a cave woman in prehistoric times. If you took a newborn Swiss or Canadian baby and dropped him off in the jungles of New Guinea with a family of head hunters, he'ld come to find cannibalism an acceptable part of life. Babies aren't born with "values." They have to be instilled. That happens through family dynamics, among other influences. It may be that there just isn't enough good dynamics going on in that home to civilize this child.

A woman has five year old twins she got through an encounter with a "sperm donor." That's a pretty amoral foundation right there. By now the kid has noticed that other kids have dads and he doesn't. Of course not all fatherless kids are monsters. But, when they're not, maybe some good influence filled the gap. This kid may be less fortunate. Maybe this mother just has no aptitude for imparting good values and no one else who does has shown up.
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Unread 09-23-2017, 10:38 AM   #20
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Default Re: This child is going to kill me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rose76 View Post
I think we overly rely on "the medical model." We tend to say what has this child "got" that is making him this way? Maybe it's what he "hasn't got" that is making him as he is. A human baby born into a middle class household with an educated mother is not born one bit more civilized than the baby who was born to a cave woman in prehistoric times. If you took a newborn Swiss or Canadian baby and dropped him off in the jungles of New Guinea with a family of head hunters, he'ld come to find cannibalism an acceptable part of life. Babies aren't born with "values." They have to be instilled. That happens through family dynamics, among other influences. It may be that there just isn't enough good dynamics going on in that home to civilize this child.

A woman has five year old twins she got through an encounter with a "sperm donor." That's a pretty amoral foundation right there. By now the kid has noticed that other kids have dads and he doesn't. Of course not all fatherless kids are monsters. But, when they're not, maybe some good influence filled the gap. This kid may be less fortunate. Maybe this mother just has no aptitude for imparting good values and no one else who does has shown up.
I really don't want this to become about insulting their mother. She is a wonderful person who works very hard and cares for her children. She is beside herself with worry after this incident with her child. I myself grew up in a family with a very loving mother, who had plenty of morals and boundaries, and a brother who was abiut as difficult as a child can get. I watched my mom torment herself for years trying to help him, trying to be a "better" mother, wondering what she had done wrong. She did her best. The mom I'm working for, to my eyes, is doing her best.

Also, the boys were nit conceived in an amoral situation (not that it's relevant or anyones place to judge...) They LITERALLY come from an actual sperm bank. They were artificially inseminated. Test-tube babies. She got to a point in life where she didn't have a husband but wanted children, and that is HER choice and one I will never judge her for. Having a dad around is not a cure-all for bad behavior.
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